Erm, I'm not sure what the hell that was I just read. I've got mixed emotions on it right now.
Reflecting on only the X-23 parts...
One minute I'm scratching my head wondering how story elements apply like blood that's been to hell and back(X-23's ongoing went into the hell of her own mind, and not real hell, but it could be someone else's blood for that)*. Other spots seem to be okay though the written voice for this X-23 is hard to really get into with how angry it's being delivered. Some spots are awesome. Some spots are again rather headscratching like the genetic twin comment which looks like it was randomly changed from clone to genetic twin(clone is the soulless debate, genetic twin is a much heavier issue, but it can slide because of self-perceptions of the character and the anger her voice is carrying that may hinder pure rational thought on the issue). To be fair though, genetic twin is more accurate than clone per the previous minis and ongoing, and I am glad to see it used as opposed to continuing the derogatory clone remark that Dr. Rice perpetuated onto Laura that confuses many fans.
While I'm scratching my head one moment, they then throw curveballs that are awe inducing. (Symbiote hybrid X-23 clones, that's just pure win.) There are other spots that are fun and interesting too, but at times it feels like they are using references and sites for the information as opposed to having read the material itself that came before. At least that's how it feels for X-23. Her parts come across as information from quick conversations, wiki references, some reference sites, and some creative liberties. Some of it works really well, some it is head scratching inducing. All of it kind of screams not having the time to dive into the character themselves for a firmer grasp of the persona and history. There are some nice nods to X-Force via the cloned 'sisters', but then they diverge reflecting more of a "gotcha" moment than really adding to the previous elements of her stories. All things that could have been easily found on any fan blog, fan forum, or reference site though, and lack a feeling of depth to them as yet.
The ending anti-thesis baddies are interesting though. X-666 is pretty much the exact opposite you'd expect, but the one that really caught my attention as wow was Ichor(the anti-thesis to Venom**, which is also an anagram for choir and is a greek god reference). I'll admit it. I'm a sucker for designs like his. Out of the 4 shown, I hope Ichor remains and grows into something more in the Marvel universe.
So far, Circle of Four is promising, but I'll save final judgement for when all the puzzle pieces are out and put together. It's worth checking out, but be warned. It might leave you scratching your head inbetween moments of awesome.
*It is someone else's blood for the portal. The exact wording is "The blood of a mortal who has been to hell and back." X-23's blood is only a vial that was used for the X-23 symbiote hybrid bodyguards. This dissmisses any Valkyries or other Norse beings as well since they aren't 'mortals.' More than likely it's just the blood of the girl he shoves through the mirror moments before.
**Correction, later in the event it's revealed to have been the one for the Alejandra Ghost Rider.
X-23 has, in fact, been to hell before. See New X-Men: Childhood's End: The Quest for Magik.
ReplyDeleteDoes Limbo count as hell or just as a hellish dimension?
DeleteCurious because where they went in that story was Limbo/Otherplace, not the Hell that Mephisto/hela/etc rule. Otherplace has a different history entirely and criteria associated. It's considered a pocket dimension of hell-like nature inhabited by demons but created from the promethium core the 'planet' has. The land takes the shape the ruler dictates, so it can appear hellish or as a paradise. It's considered part of Temporal Limbo and not part of the levels/tiers of Hell itself. This is why I immediately skipped referencing that story for this.
DeleteI'm not personally sure what Limbo counts as in Marvel continuity. But throughout the Quest for Magik arc, Limbo is referred to as both a "hellish dimension" and "hell" by Blindfold, Belasco, Dust, the pre-story -cap blurb, and various other characters. Which leads me to conclude that there probably wasn't any proper differentiation between "hellish dimension" and "hell" going on in that arc. Since Marvel font is all in capitals, it isn't even especially clear whether Kyle and Yost meant Limbo to be part of "Hell" (i.e. where Mephisto is), some other type of "hell" (i.e. demonic dimensions that aren't where Mephisto is, or just descriptively "hell" (i.e. Limbo is so horrible that it requires a hyperbolic description).
ReplyDeleteThe Venom arc deliberately leaves it ambiguous which "hell" they are referring to. (It could even be, as you say, the trip X-23 made to her own mental hell in the Killing Dream arc.) I suspect that is entirely the point.
Could be, or it could be someone else's blood entirely like Blaze's and X-23's was only used for the bodyguards.
DeleteIt's not very clear cut in the comic as you said, doesn't even say who that blood for the spell actually belonged to.
As for Limbo/Otherplace, it was just hyperbole. Magik and others think of it as hell because of all the fire and brimstone. For Illyana especially, it's hell because of how she was ripped away from her loved ones and forced to grow up there. Plus the entire "brings teh demonic nature out" part that afflicted Gambit later makes it more cumbersome. I'm only going off of how Marvel has classified it so far. You're right though, it may share enough traits with Marvel's "Real hell" to count.
Possible, but then that would make the plot a little less congruent in that X-23 would be the only one out of four who didn't contribute to the successful opening of the gateway. Also, a random vial of Blaze's blood showing up doesn't make as much sense. Presumably, it is either X-23, or just some other mortal who has been to hell. Maybe Wolverine's or Magik's or Pixie's. Plenty of candidates there.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the question of whether Limbo counted as Hell in the QoM arc and whether that means X-23 is the owner of the blood vial used for the opening could just be an issue of sloppy writing on the part of Marvel. Wouldn't be the first time they've made X-23's history a little fuzzy just for the purposes of introducing her to the story. (e.g. her arrival at the Academy in New X-men: Childhood's End as a 'new' student that nobody knows when Uncanny X-men 460 already had her introduced)
Well, in Academy X's defense, those students didn't know her whereas the X-Men do from that encounter(especially Betsy, Kitty, and Rachel). It does get sloppy later though in how Wolverine says he kept her secret, then later Cyclops, Emma and the rest of the adult team seemingly know the full story. Yeah, that's just Marvel though and tends to happen when writers are trying to retcon out a story(granted, the manner in which they did still left NYX open for the timeline, it just puts in a forced "she left the x-men to go back to San Francisco for nostalgia"). xD
DeleteRed Hulk didn't contribute anything to the gate opening. X-23 and Venom contributed the toxin/x-23 hybrid bodyguards which X-23 may have killed, and Ghost Rider opened the gate. It's not so much all 4 pieces were needed for the gate, but just all four characters were in the wrong place at the wrong time for 4 different reasons. Venom because of the deal, Red Hulk for trying to capture venom, Ghost Rider for sensing the massive energy, and X-23 to stop any experiments using her blood. Only 2 of the 4 are directly connected. Venom and X-23 (The guy who blackmailed Flash to retrieve Toxin, is the same guy using X-23's blood to make bodyguards).
DeleteThe spell blood can't be Pixie's(Limbo again, not Hell as yet). Magik is possible with the new mutants visiting Hela in her domain recently. Which opens up Dani Moonstar too. Wolverine's soul went to hell, but his body stayed on earth(though there might be even earlier stories of the X-Men going to real hell). The criteria was physical body has been to 'real hell' and back. At least that's what is implied. Otherwise you'd think the gate would open to whatever 'hell' the person went to like Limbo, Hela's domain, etc. Not directly to Mephisto's realm.
So all we know about the blood is that it was someone with a physical body that's been to hell(preferably Mephisto's realm) and back. There are plenty of Marvel characters this has happened with though, from Daimon to Dr. Strange, Hellcat, Dr. Doom, and many others.
You pretty much nailed on the head one of my main complaints about Marvel.
ReplyDeleteThey have a tendency to take info the audience is aware of and give it to characters, and then they have a tendency to treat the audience like they know what the character's should know.
They don't have a very clear line of seperation for making sure the audience is aware of what's going on. A prime example of this for me is the X-23 oneshot, where they could have used the foreword blurb to establish, even slightly comedicly, that X-23 is keeping quiet on topics for those people's protection(which would have made the nyx reuniting in it more impacting since now she's made this telepathic presence aware of them). Instead it's overtly vague, and outright has facts wrong in the foreword.
A lot of things were off here in this book. But above everything else that has been discussed in this thread is the fact that this looks to be a pretty fun romp. At the same time some pretty serious issues are discussed. Flash thinking about his father that abused him; spiraling into alcoholism. X-23, questioning her own motives about destroying her newly created twins. Count me as very excited for how these issues progress. As Laura moves closer to the Avengers world with Black Widow and now working with Red Hulk, admittedly under unusually circumstances. Laura does not want to be exploited and used as a weapon. However, now that she is in the spotlight
ReplyDeleteof government agencies, she will probably either be forcefully recruited or hunted down. Either way I can't wait to see what happens in the coming months.